Curse

MirageCloud · Nov 02, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

I've had a discussion with my English teacher, he's saying my answer is false, and I don't agree, so I thought I'd ask you guys. Here is the question: What word fits in the ... part? Choose from; (a) few, (a) little, many, much.

"His ideas are very difficult, but ... people understand them."

I know "a few" would fit here, but I filled in "many", which in my eyes is right as well. Is it? If not, please explain why, if yes, please do the same so I can show my teacher. Thanks in advance.

tommarrow · Nov 02, 2006, 03:43 PM // 15:43

I would say because of the word "difficult" in the first part of the sentence. If "many" people understood then it would not be difficult to understand his ideas but if "few" people understood then the whole sentence would now make sense.
That is how I understand it. Hope it helps.

Windjammer · Nov 02, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

the "but" makes "many" the correct answer. if "few" were the correct answer then the "but" would have to be "and". "but" says "despite this..." while "and" says "because of this...".

I'm sure there is a more technical way to explain this that would be more impressive, and I know my way of describing it is right (did you catch that). Maybe look on wiki for "but" or "english grammar with but" or somthing like that for the technical description.

MirageCloud · Nov 02, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommarrow

I would say because of the word "difficult" in the first part of the sentence. If "many" people understood then it would not be difficult to understand his ideas but if "few" people understood then the whole sentence would now make sense.
That is how I understand it. Hope it helps.

But what if you assume at least a few people will understand it anyway, making "a few" a logic thing even without 'but', wouldn’t that make 'many' a logic answer if there is a 'but'?

Sophitia Leafblade · Nov 02, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Well

"His ideas are very difficult, but (many) people understand them." seems perfectly ok to me.

(a little) would only fit in if used like this:
"His ideas are very difficult, but people understand them (a little)."

"His ideas are very difficult, but (a few) people understand them." would work also with or without the a (although without the "a" would be the better usage) however this would go against the the "but" part of the sentence

I could be wrong here but i dont think Much wouldnt fit in at all unless the original sentence was changed

hope that helps

tommarrow · Nov 02, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

I still say that if many people understood then his ideas would not be VERY DIFFICULT to understand, they would be easy.

Sophitia Leafblade · Nov 02, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Not necessarily, just because something is difficult like say completing gw (well to some people it is difficult) doesn’t mean a lot of people can not have done. Few would only be the best fit if it was "and few" and not "But few"

Mercury Angel · Nov 02, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

It's 'many' in that context.

"The food was hot, but I burned myself on it." is ridiculous.
"The food was hot, but enjoyably so." on the other hand is fine.

"But" is a conjunction that connects two related contrasting ideas, generally. In the example's case, 'but' indicates that despite the difficulty, many comprehend them.

The coordinating conjunctions that would make sense with 'few';
His ideas are very difficult, for few people understand them.
His ideas are very difficult, and few people understand them.
His ideas are very difficult, so few people understand them.

Each of these presents a positive association beteween the two concepts, which are "His ideas are difficult" and "Few people understand his ideas".

The coordinating conjunctions that are compatible with 'many';
His ideas are very difficult, but many people understand them.
His ideas are very difficult, yet many people understand them.

Similarly, each of these performs the function of connecting the conflicting information of "His ideas are difficult" and "Many people understand his ideas".

To sum it up;
You're right, while your teacher is wrong.

Ridiculed · Nov 02, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

No matter what is posted here your teacher will be hot-headed and mark you wrong anyway.

Teachers = Born and bred assholes

I pwnd U · Nov 02, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

^^what he said. lol Mercury has it pretty much on the nose from the looks of it. But is a conjunction. Many would be the right answer because you are showing that even though the his ideas were difficult many people could understand them. So many would be correct.

Windjammer · Nov 02, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

I misread your OP, thinking that '(a) few', was as in, "choice a is: few"; and I thought that when you put '(a) little, many, much', you had meant to put '(b) little...' as in "choice b", but made a mistake. So if 'a few' was the answer choice, not simply 'few', then 'a few' is correct. Now enough of those semantics and on with these. Below is a great explanation of the logic of 'and' and 'but', for those who actually care.

BTW, this was lifted directly off of Wiki. It was found using keyword "logical conjunction". There is more there on the subject if you are interested in linguistics, math, or are just REALLY bored.

A minor issue of logic and language is the role of the word "but". Logically, the sentence "it's raining, but the sun is shining" is equivalent to "it's raining, and the sun is shining", so logically, "but" is equivalent to "and". However, in natural language, "but" and "and" are semantically distinct. The former sentence suggests that the latter sentence is usually a contradiction.

One way to resolve this problem of correspondence between symbolic logic and natural language is to observe that the first sentence (using "but"), implies the existence of a hidden but mistaken assumption, namely that the sun does not shine when it rains. We might say that, given probability p that it rains and the sun shines, and probability 1 − p that it rains and the sun does not shine, or that it does not rain at all, we would say "but" in place of "and" when p was low enough to warrant our incredulity.

That implication captures the semantic difference of "and" and "but" without disturbing their logical equivalence. On the other hand, in Brazilian logic, the logical equivalence is broken between A BUT NOT B (where "BUT NOT" is a single operator) and A AND (NOT B), which is a weaker statement.

"But" is also sometimes disjunctive (It never rains but it pours); sometimes minutive (Canada has had but three shots on goal); sometimes contrastive (He was not God, but merely an exalted man); sometimes a spatial preposition (He's waiting but the house); and sometimes interjective (My, but that's a lovely boat). These uses await semantic assimilation with conjunctive "but".

Like "and", "but" is sometimes non-commutative: "He got here, but he got here late" is not equivalent to "He got here late, but he got here". This example shows also that unlike "and", "but" can be felicitously used to conjoin sentences that entail each other; compare "He got here late, and he got here".

milias · Nov 02, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirageCloud

I've had a discussion with my English teacher, he's saying my answer is false, and I don't agree, so I thought I'd ask you guys. Here is the question: What word fits in the ... part? Choose from; (a) few, (a) little, many, much.

"His ideas are very difficult, but ... people understand them."

I know "a few" would fit here, but I filled in "many", which in my eyes is right as well. Is it? If not, please explain why, if yes, please do the same so I can show my teacher. Thanks in advance.

I would've picked "few", but I understand where you're coming from, because of the word "but".

Lasareth · Nov 02, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

No idea why the a was in parentheses. "A few" is leaps and bounds different than "few" in that context.

MirageCloud · Nov 02, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasareth

No idea why the a was in parentheses. "A few" is leaps and bounds different than "few" in that context.

Thats how it was in my assignment.

Windjammer · Nov 02, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

you know... if the 'a' was in parenthesis because it is optional, then 'many' could be just as right as 'a few'.

The logic of it would be that 'the ideas are difficult', which implies that only a few people would understand them. In natural logic 'and' and 'but' are the same:

His ideas are very difficult, but a few people understand them.
His ideas are very difficult, and a few people understand them.

but because of symbolic logic, which could imply the assumption that since the ideas are difficult only a few people understand them, the first sentence is the correct one. However:

His ideas are very difficult, but many people understand them.
His ideas are very difficult, and many people understand them.

Here the assumption that the ideas are difficult is a mistaken one. Once again, naturally, 'but' and 'and' are the same. But symbolic logic makes the first sentence correct; and it is no more nor no less correct than than the correct example in the first set of senteces.

His ideas are very difficult, but a few people understand them.
His ideas are very difficult, but many people understand them.

Linguistically and logically both sentences are equally correct. The only difference between them is that in one the assumption that the difficult ideas mean only a few people should understand them is correct while in the other it is a mistaken assumption. Since your instructor never specified whether or not the assumption was correct, and since he placed the 'a' in parentheses which typically means it is may or may not be used (itself an assumption, don't go there). You picked 'many' not using the 'a', which is an equally correct choice to picking 'few' using the 'a'.

Divinitys Creature · Nov 02, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirageCloud

I've had a discussion with my English teacher, he's saying my answer is false, and I don't agree, so I thought I'd ask you guys. Here is the question: What word fits in the ... part? Choose from; (a) few, (a) little, many, much.

"His ideas are very difficult, but ... people understand them."

I know "a few" would fit here, but I filled in "many", which in my eyes is right as well. Is it? If not, please explain why, if yes, please do the same so I can show my teacher. Thanks in advance.

"Little" would not make sense, neither would "much", those are wrong.

"Many" could make sense, as many people do understand some difficult ideas like morals for example.

IMHO it should be "a few" because it seems to match better with the use of "but". I think "but" does not need to be used that way only and "many" fits in just as well, but many people tend to stick to what they are used to. Teachers are not always right.

Zui · Nov 02, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirageCloud

I've had a discussion with my English teacher, he's saying my answer is false, and I don't agree, so I thought I'd ask you guys. Here is the question: What word fits in the ... part? Choose from; (a) few, (a) little, many, much.

"His ideas are very difficult, but ... people understand them."

I know "a few" would fit here, but I filled in "many", which in my eyes is right as well. Is it? If not, please explain why, if yes, please do the same so I can show my teacher. Thanks in advance.

I'd pick few, simply because that is what they want, even though it is not correct.

However, I consider "many" to be correct. The word "but" marks opposition, or contrast. There is no opposition or unlikeness(contrast) if you use the word "few." The idea that somthing is difficult to understand, and as such few people understand it are in agreement; there is no unlikeness, or opposition. The idea that somthing is difficult to understand, and yet many people undetstand it are in contrast, making "few" the correct choice.

milias · Nov 02, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Unfortunately, English != logic

Mercury Angel · Nov 02, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasareth

No idea why the a was in parentheses. "A few" is leaps and bounds different than "few" in that context.

o_O

I didn't see that. Brain auto-corrected to (a) (b) etc...
Well, yeah. Then that changes things.

In that case, 'a few' and 'many' would both be technically valid, and perfectly reasonable sentence construction. At this point, you're only asking which is MORE valid, and that's just plain semantics. And I mean seriously semantics.

How much is 'a few'? How much is 'many'? An important distinction I'd like to point out is that 'many' =/= 'most', so many can easily be a minority. 1,000,000 people is enough to be 'many' in my opinion, but a group that size does not make up a sizable chunk of the world's population.

If we were talking about Calculus, for instance, most people have never touched the stuff. But many people DO take classes in it, in high school, and in college, and comprehend it.

So, is it, "Calculus is a difficult subject, but a few people understand it", or "Calculus is a difficult subject, but many people understand it?"

Ultimate_Gaara · Nov 06, 2006, 01:43 AM // 01:43

The instant I read what you wrote the word "few" flew right into place.

Why? Simple, my english teacher back in highschool explained why he would not accept "many" in this situation.

He said something like " Many is word in which you are able to count, few has no number." Something like that, funny thing is my math teacher said the exact same thing...

For example "I don't have many cupcakes left" vs "Very few people got cupcakes" something like that, it has been a while since I was in school so odds are I messed up somewhere, however the word "few" is correct in my eyes, "many" will not fit.

I know it is quite confusing when you want to switch up to a bigger group in which you want to say " A lot of people got cupcakes" or something... umm... I am not an english teacher so umm... yeah, your on your own for that one.